View source for Kids Have Questions - Part 1

https://issuesetc.org/2023/07/21/2014-kids-have-questions-part-1-pr-jonathan-conner-7-21-23/

[[Kids Have Questions - Part 1#In the new earth, if someone were to somehow sin, would we have to start the whole thing over again?|In the new earth, if someone were to somehow sin, would we have to start the whole thing over again?]]
[[Kids Have Questions - Part 1#Will we remember our lives and what earth was like after we are resurrected?|Will we remember our lives and what earth was like after we are resurrected?]]

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[TW]: Anyone who spends any time around little children knows that children are full of questions.

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[TW]: They're curious about the world around them.

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[TW]: They're curious about the Christian faith.

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[TW]: They're even curious about things that for them may likely be many decades in the future like what happens when they die and what happens at the end of the world and will they know their family when they gett to heaven.

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[TW]: Welcome back to Issues at Setter.

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[TW]: We're beginning a new series, Kids Have Questions, today, The Afterlife.

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[TW]: Pastor Jonathan Connor joins us.

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[TW]: He's pastor of Zion Lutheran Church in Manning, Iowa.

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[TW]: Jonathan, welcome back.

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[JC]: Hey, thanks for having me.

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[TW]: We are working today from a list of questions that you sent us.

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[TW]: How did you compile this list?

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[JC]: Yeah, great question.

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[JC]: So for the last four or five years, I started something a little bit new in my confirmation class.

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[JC]: It's a simple concept, but at the end of each confirmation class, the kids all have a learning journal.

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[JC]: It's just a notebook.

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[JC]: And I asked them to write down either one thing they learned,

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[JC]: or one question they have.

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[JC]: And then I collect those and I spend the next day or two responding to their questions.

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[JC]: And so for the first year, I was writing out all their answers by hand and my hand just couldn't keep up.

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[JC]: I got 20 kids to write answers to.

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[JC]: So I started typing them on the computer and then cutting them out and pasting them in their notebook for them.

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[JC]: But then I also realized I was keeping this running log on my computer.

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[JC]: That document's a little over 300 pages long now.

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[JC]: But what it does for me is,

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[JC]: it shows me one, the things the kids are learning, which are really exciting.

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[JC]: And I can, I can respond to those questions and give them a little bit further detail, but the questions they're asking are so exciting because one, it gives me the opportunity to answer their questions.

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[JC]: And lots of those questions aren't even about things we talked about in class, but it also gives me a pulse of kind of the questions they're wrestling with that things are talking about at school.

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[JC]: Sometimes the stuff that's going on in their home,

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[JC]: So it's a great way for these kids to ask a question that they might not feel comfortable asking in class, but they really want answered.

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[JC]: And so I've had some wonderful prolonged sort of back and forth questions over the years and some very insightful questions and thoughtful questions.

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[JC]: So that's where the list comes from.

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[TW]: The first one we'll deal with today, questions that kids ask about the afterlife.

== In the new earth, if someone were to somehow sin, would we have to start the whole thing over again? ==
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[JC]: In the new earth, if someone were to somehow sin, would we have to start the whole thing over again?

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[JC]: Yeah, great question.

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[JC]: So what I'm going to do in the answer is first, I'm simply going to read the answer that I gave to these kids, and then I want to just expand upon it a little bit.

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[JC]: Because when I'm answering questions for 7th and 8th graders, I'm not writing a dissertation.

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[JC]: So I'm trying to give a paragraph or two that's concise and simple, so I try not to gett

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[JC]: too complicated in my answers.

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[JC]: I think that's really important for all of us as we're thinking through this.

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[JC]: We want to give kids a good answer, a solid answer, but let's not overwhelm them either and see if they have follow-up questions.

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[JC]: So first I'll do is I'll read the question I offered to the kid who asked this, and then I'll just expand upon it a little bit.

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[JC]: So first thing I always want to do is acknowledge that they've asked a good question.

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[JC]: So I say, great question.

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[JC]: This is going to sound strange, and I've struggled with this myself,

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[JC]: but we won't be able to sin in the new earth.

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[JC]: It's not that we will want to sin and God won't let us, but that we'll be fully empowered by God's Holy Spirit and untempted by sin.

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[JC]: So, we won't want to sin any more than the Holy Spirit wants to sin.

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[JC]: our natures will be transformed and completely liberated from sin and from the temptation to sin.

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[JC]: So that's where my answer for the child ends, but to build on this a little bit, to give a little bit more background,

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[JC]: Martin Chemnitz actually writes about this in his book, The Two Natures of Christ, which is just a marvelous, deep, and thoughtful book.

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[JC]: But he builds on 1 Corinthians 15, and I want to just read that verse quickly and then expand upon it, because this is where he's gettting after this idea of our natures, our bodies, being fully empowered by God's Holy Spirit.

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[JC]: And I just got to say up front, if that doesn't make your heart soar with hope, I don't know what could, because

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[JC]: I know my nature well enough now, the simultaneously saint and sinner.

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[JC]: I know the sinner part especially well because each day I wake up with the same attraction to sin that I had yesterday.

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[JC]: And I think all of us, kids included, we know what it's like to gett to the end of another day and feel like, man,

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[JC]: I fell for the same sin again.

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[JC]: I'm still attracted to the same sin.

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[JC]: I mean, I've had conversations with people who have said to me, I just wish I could be free from this temptation to sin.

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[JC]: So, I mean, the good news is, hey, this is the promise of the resurrection is finally we're going to be free from the temptation to sin.

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[JC]: But Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians 15.

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[JC]: He says, so it is with the resurrection of the dead.

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[JC]: What is sown is perishable.

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[JC]: What is raised

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[JC]: is imperishable.

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[JC]: It is sown in dishonor.

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[JC]: It is raised in glory.

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[JC]: It is sown in weakness.

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[JC]: It is raised in power.

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[JC]: It is sown a natural body.

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[JC]: It is raised a spiritual body."

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[JC]: Now, that phrase right there, I mean, the rest of it's really important.

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[JC]: And if we had another conversation, I could talk more about the resurrected body.

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[JC]: But for now, the part where he says, spiritual body,

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[JC]: People hear that in America and they think, oh, that means non-physical.

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[JC]: Not at all.

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[JC]: You got to read further, go back earlier in the book of 1 Corinthians where Paul will compare spiritual to the natural.

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[JC]: So the body empowered by the human spirit versus the body empowered by the Holy Spirit.

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[JC]: And we're very much talking about a physical body.

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[JC]: But here's what Chemnitz says.

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[JC]: I referenced Chemnitz a minute ago.

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[JC]: He says in the two natures,

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[JC]: So he's talking about the resurrected bodies.

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[JC]: The bodies will be spiritual.

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[JC]: So he's referencing the first Corinthians 15 text I just read.

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[JC]: The bodies will be spiritual in the same sense that what the soul is now to the body, the spirit will thenceforth be to both the body and the soul, with the exception of the personal union of the body and the soul.

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[JC]: The body togetther with the soul will be wholly subject to the guidance and leadership of the spirit.

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[JC]: In the resurrection, both body and soul, without any rebelliousness, will be perfectly obedient to the leadership and governance of the Spirit."

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[JC]: Okay, so that's this gospel promise that in the resurrection we will finally be free from even the temptation to sin.

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[JC]: So the kids' question is a great question, and I don't know, this is a natural thing to ask about.

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[JC]: Like, what happens if we all sin again?

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[JC]: But when we realize that we have this promise that our natures are gonna be so transformed and so animated and empowered by the Holy Spirit that we'll be free, that's such a marvelous message to share with people.

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[JC]: And I just love that we in the church have the privilege to share that.

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[JC]: I gett to tell this to confirmation kids.

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[JC]: I gett to tell this to adults.

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[JC]: I watch people in all different circumstances of life.

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[JC]: When you share that message, you can just see their eyes light up with hope because they know what it's like

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[JC]: time and time again to fall into sin and be discouraged and despondent by it.

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[JC]: But here's the promise of one day being finally free.

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[JC]: So it was so great to share that with that kid, and I know that was a meaningful thing because I've had these conversations out loud with kids too, and it's always a great source of encouragement.

== Will we remember our lives and what earth was like after we are resurrected? ==
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[TW]: Another one, will we remember our lives and what earth was like after we are resurrected?

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[JC]: Isn't that a great question?

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[JC]: I think that's so fantastic.

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[JC]: I hope people have thought about that before.

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[JC]: I think it's so fascinating to imagine life in the resurrection.

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[JC]: But here's what I said to the child, and then I'll gett to a little bit of expanding upon it.

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[JC]: I said, great question.

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[JC]: I have every expectation that we will.

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[JC]: And here's why.

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[JC]: Number one, memory is integral to identity.

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[JC]: And scripture is clear that our identities will be retained.

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[JC]: So you are going to be you forever.

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[JC]: And part of your story is your connection to your family, for instance.

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[JC]: So in the resurrection, you're going to know who your parents are and who your siblings are.

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[JC]: But that involves remembering your life with them.

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[JC]: And number two, Jesus kept his scars.

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[JC]: If our memories were going to be wiped in the resurrection, why would he keep the scars?

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[JC]: He kept the scars because he knew we'd remember his cross and what those scars mean for us.

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[JC]: So I have every expectation that we will remember our lives on earth.

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[JC]: Yes, there are some memories that are difficult for us now.

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[JC]: But I have full confidence that in the resurrection, even our painful memories will find healing and peace in Jesus.

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[JC]: So I don't suspect we'll only remember the happy things, but the happy and the sad.

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[JC]: But because we're standing in resurrected bodies on a new earth, the sad things won't make us sad.

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[JC]: We'll see how Jesus' death and resurrection redeemed everything.

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[JC]: Okay, so that's where my answer ends.

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[JC]: Now, let me unpack a little bit from a very simple verse in Scripture that I think is a great place to go to, to maybe expand upon this.

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[JC]: So over in 2 Corinthians 4 in verse 14, chapter four and chapter five are so fantastic when he's talking about the hope of the resurrection.

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[JC]: But just verse 14 for our purposes.

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[JC]: He says, we know that he who raised the Lord Jesus

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[JC]: will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

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[JC]: Okay, so just think about those words for a minute.

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[JC]: Look what Paul is assuming in there, okay?

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[JC]: So, who's God going to raise?

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[JC]: Well, he's going to raise us and bring us to be with you.

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[JC]: So notice what Paul's assuming.

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[JC]: He's assuming that we're going to know each other.

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[JC]: Otherwise, he would say, God's going to raise generic people, then we'll have this all kind of gett to know each other and reintroduce all these generic people.

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[JC]: No, he says, God is going to raise us, he's going to raise you, he's going to bring us togetther, and Jesus is going to be with us.

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[JC]: Well, the promise is we're going to know each other.

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[JC]: There has to be some sort of memory attached to that.

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[JC]: Or you can go, for example, to the book of Revelation in chapter 6.

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[JC]: And granted, the book of Revelation has a lot of symbolism, but you have the part about the martyrs under the altar, and they're saying, how long, Lord, before you will judge and avenge our blood?

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[JC]: So they're clearly, at least in heaven, they're remembering how they died.

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[JC]: And so you think through the rest of Scripture, you start to ask questions, and you think, well,

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[JC]: Will the martyrs remember how they died?

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[JC]: I can't imagine they wouldn't.

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[JC]: Will John the baptizer, is he not going to remember that he was beheaded?

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[JC]: That seems highly unlikely.

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[JC]: Will Elijah not remember that he had this showdown with the prophets of Baal?

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[JC]: Or, well, Peter, not remember that moment where Jesus reinstates him, right?

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[JC]: Peter, do you love me, right?

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[JC]: Feed my sheep.

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[JC]: It's a beautiful moment.

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[JC]: Or the woman at the well, right?

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[JC]: John 4.

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[JC]: She says, he told me everything I ever did.

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[JC]: Is she going to forgett that?

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[JC]: I think that's just highly unlikely.

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[JC]: There's too much evidence to suggest we will remember.

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[JC]: But let me say a word about these sad memories, because there's a lot of pain and brokenness in our world.

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[JC]: And I know in some respects, there are things we'd rather forgett.

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[JC]: And I completely understand that.

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[JC]: I think we've all had moments in our life that we'd just rather forgett.

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[JC]: So the thought that we'll remember some of these things in the resurrection might sound initially distressing, but

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[JC]: There's this beautiful image I'm going to use maybe to help paint this picture.

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[JC]: I think this actually was on the front cover of one of our Concordia journals a while back.

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[JC]: It's a Japanese art.

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[JC]: It's called, I'm going to probably mispronounce it, but Kintsugi.

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[JC]: But this is where they take broken or chipped parts of vessels, like cherished vases or pottery,

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[JC]: and they've been broken or highly damaged, and they'll glue them back togetther with this sort of lacquer, and then they'll paint the seams with this really shiny gold or silver substance so that it shines.

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[JC]: What happens then is the brokenness is not being forgotten.

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[JC]: But it's being redeemed in such a way that even that brokenness is redeemed to a point that it shines with beauty.

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[JC]: Or maybe if you're talking to kids, a way to portray this would be simply with a nursery rhyme, with Humpty Dumpty, right?

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[JC]: All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back togetther again, but here's the thing.

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[JC]: God can, and the promise that just makes my heart sore is that He will, right?

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[JC]: He's going to put us back togetther.

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[JC]: Here's the promise, okay?

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[JC]: His glory is going to shine through the cracks and the scars, and it is going to enhance the beauty of our resurrected bodies.

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[JC]: So, I see no evidence in Scripture

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[JC]: that says, our memories will be wiped.

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[JC]: I gett the part about not wanting to remember certain things.

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[JC]: I totally gett that.

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[JC]: But I think when we do that, we sell short.

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[JC]: how big the redemption of Jesus is, and what it's going to mean to have these scars and brokenness in our life be redeemed in such a way that God will turn it into something beautiful that will bring Him glory.

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[JC]: And we won't be ashamed of it, because we'll see

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[JC]: how Jesus has healed it, and I think it will only magnify our love for Him and our praise for Him.

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[JC]: So I think those are great questions when kids ask them, and they're really worth just pausing and doing a little bit of reflecting on it, because I think it invites us into a much bigger appreciation, ultimately, of the redemption of Jesus.

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[TW]: Pastor Jonathan Connor is our guest, pastor of Zion Lutheran Church in Manning, Iowa.

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[TW]: It's our series, Kids Have Questions.

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[TW]: Today, questions about the afterlife.

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[TW]: The next one, when the end happens, what will happen to the world?

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[TW]: Welcome back, I'm Todd Wilkin.

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[TW]: We're beginning a series, Kids Have Questions.

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[TW]: Today, the afterlife, Pastor Jonathan Conner is our guest.

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[TW]: He's pastor of Zion Lutheran Church in Manning, Iowa.

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[TW]: Faith Lutheran School in Plano, Texas will offer a variety of live online high school classes for the 2023-24 school year.

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[TW]: Faith Lutheran School's online classes use two-way streaming to allow homeschool students and others across the globe to participate in the school's classes in real time.

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[TW]: Learn more at flsplano.org, Faith Lutheran School, Plano, Texas, flsplano.org.

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[TW]: Pastor Connor, here's another one.

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[TW]: When the end happens, what will happen to the world?

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[TW]: Will people ever live here again?

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[JC]: Isn't that a great question?

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[JC]: I love that question.

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[JC]: So here's what I wrote to the child.

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[JC]: The answer is primarily quoting from 2 Peter, but then I'll expand upon it in a minute.

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[JC]: So I say, great question.

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[JC]: The apostle Peter writes, this is in 2 Peter 3, but the day of the Lord will come like a thief and the heavens will pass away.

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[JC]: Now remember that phrase pass away just for a second, I'm gonna come back to it.

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[JC]: So they will pass away with a roar.

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[JC]: and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

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[JC]: Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God?

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[JC]: Because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn, but

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[JC]: According to his promise, we are waiting for new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells.

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[JC]: I love that phrase, righteousness dwells.

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[JC]: But anyway, I say, so the earth will be judged and then made new.

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[JC]: So yes, people will live here again.

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[JC]: Earth will be our home forever.

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[JC]: Okay, that's where my answer ends.

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[JC]: But I mentioned that phrase pass away.

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[JC]: So Jesus over Matthew chapter 24 says, heaven and earth will

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[JC]: pass away, but my words will not pass away.

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[JC]: So we know that the earth will experience a sort of judgment, a laying waste or being exposed, Peter says, and that it's going to be renewed.

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[JC]: And I mean, think about it.

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[JC]: We confess the resurrection of the dead, right?

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[JC]: And sometimes I don't think we flesh that out enough.

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[JC]: Where are these resurrected bodies going to be?

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[JC]: They're not going to be floating around in the sky.

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[JC]: They're going to be standing on the renewed earth.

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[JC]: For example, I love the way C.S.

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[JC]: Lewis captures this idea.

20:46.448 --> 20:49.971
[JC]: He writes this essay, The Grand Miracle, well worth reading.

20:50.191 --> 20:52.013
[JC]: But the one phrase I want to highlight, he says this.

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[JC]: So he's talking about Jesus taking on flesh, dying and rising.

20:56.937 --> 21:02.061
[JC]: He says, God has dived down to the bottom of creation.

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[JC]: and has come up bringing the whole redeemed nature on His shoulder.

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[JC]: I find that to be such a remarkable image.

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[JC]: And when I imagine that, I imagine Jesus, if you will, sort of diving down into this deep, watery abyss.

21:18.008 --> 21:32.460
[JC]: It's dark, and he's diving down to the bottom, and he's reached this muck on the bottom, and he's brought back up this immense treasure, and he's carrying it on his shoulder, and he brings it out, and there are great cries of triumph and rejoicing.

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[JC]: But what C.S.

21:34.162 --> 21:35.343
[JC]: Lewis is saying here is,

21:36.894 --> 21:42.601
[JC]: We have to remember that Jesus, He came and He was wearing our skin.

21:42.621 --> 21:49.049
[JC]: And when He died and rose from the dead, He came out of that grave wearing our skin.

21:50.188 --> 21:55.072
[JC]: And that brings renewal and hope for all of creation, right?

21:55.092 --> 21:56.533
[JC]: So I think of Romans chapter 8.

21:57.233 --> 21:59.215
[JC]: Romans chapter 8 is a marvelous chapter.

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[JC]: I mean, it's so thick and so rich.

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[JC]: But the middle section where Paul's talking about the whole creation, right?

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[JC]: Paul talks about it's waiting on the edge of its seat for the revealing of the sons of God, of the inheritors of the kingdom.

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[JC]: And you may read that and say,

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[JC]: Why does creation care who the sons of God are, who the inheritors of the kingdom are?

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[JC]: The reason why creation cares is because those are the ones who are going to reign over it with Jesus.

22:31.853 --> 22:38.676
[JC]: And Paul goes on to talk about how creation itself is going to be caught up into the freedom, the glory of the children of God.

22:38.696 --> 22:45.419
[JC]: So, I mean, the whole thing has this great promise of being renewed and brought into the glory of God.

22:46.259 --> 22:53.743
[JC]: Those of us in the Missouri Synod, if you have the Lutheran service book, sometime take it out of your pew and just look at the front cover.

22:54.503 --> 23:03.245
[JC]: And look at that cross, there's a golden cross, it's recessed in the middle, the gold cross surrounds it, and then there are eight squares that surround that.

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[JC]: Now there's a description of it in the first few pages, so you can look this up if you forgett what I say, so it's there.

23:09.127 --> 23:14.468
[JC]: But if you see what this is symbolizing, the center is symbolizing the death of Christ.

23:15.228 --> 23:21.892
[JC]: The gold cross, obviously His resurrection, but those eight squares, which eight is not accidental.

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[JC]: In fact, for most of us, if we were to count the size of our baptismal font,

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[JC]: Guess how many sides they have?

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[JC]: They have eight sides.

23:29.841 --> 23:35.162
[JC]: That eight is important because it ties back into the original creation week.

23:35.903 --> 23:39.744
[JC]: So God creates in 6, He rests on the 7th.

23:40.104 --> 23:44.505
[JC]: In the Genesis narrative, you don't have the close of that day narrated.

23:45.305 --> 23:53.191
[JC]: So theologically, that's kind of latched onto, and we see that Jesus rises from the dead when?

23:53.751 --> 24:02.137
[JC]: On the first day of the week, or sometimes that getts referred to as the eighth day, picking up on the creation week from Genesis.

24:02.717 --> 24:07.221
[JC]: And so that number eight is oftentimes used as a symbol of new creation.

24:07.961 --> 24:27.517
[JC]: So here we have this great connection of new creation and the resurrection of Jesus, new creation in baptism, and it's all pointing to the promise of the final new creation or renewing of all creation that our Lord is going to set free and bring into the liberty of the children of God, the glory of the children of God.

24:28.177 --> 24:29.999
[JC]: This is such a marvelous image.

24:30.619 --> 24:35.764
[JC]: I just gett so excited when our kids start asking about this, because yes, we're going to live here.

24:35.784 --> 24:36.765
[JC]: And I love telling them this.

24:37.086 --> 24:38.907
[JC]: So as you introduced me, I'm from Iowa.

24:39.208 --> 24:41.050
[JC]: So the soil is pretty big.

24:41.290 --> 24:43.212
[JC]: It's a big deal for Iowans, right?

24:43.292 --> 24:46.435
[JC]: We grow a lot of crops, and it's beautiful soil here.

24:47.095 --> 24:50.699
[JC]: And you will meet a lot of Iowans with dirt under their fingernails.

24:51.240 --> 24:58.006
[JC]: And that means something to them, because they know what that soil means for their livelihood and for, honestly, the feeding of the world.

24:58.647 --> 25:01.290
[JC]: So I tell people, look, in the resurrection,

25:02.808 --> 25:06.109
[JC]: you're going to be able to gett dirt under your fingernails.

25:06.830 --> 25:08.751
[JC]: That's the kind of real we're talking about.

25:09.131 --> 25:12.112
[JC]: And the whole thing is going to be renewed and liberated.

25:12.612 --> 25:15.393
[JC]: And Jesus is going to live with us, and we're going to live with Him.

25:16.174 --> 25:17.334
[JC]: Yes, we gett to live here.

25:17.614 --> 25:18.675
[JC]: So it's not this sort of

25:19.435 --> 25:24.299
[JC]: very limited theology, sort of the die-and-go-to-heaven theology, like that's the end of the story.

25:24.539 --> 25:26.961
[JC]: No, that's a part of it, but it's not the end of it.

25:27.461 --> 25:35.226
[JC]: The end of it is the whole thing getts made new, and we live with Jesus and reign over a renewed creation forever.

25:35.807 --> 25:36.607
[JC]: That's exciting.

25:36.868 --> 25:40.330
[JC]: So I'm always excited to tell kids about that, and parents, and adults, and so forth.

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[JC]: This is something to celebrate.

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[TW]: Another question, to gett to heaven, do you have to be baptized?

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[JC]: Oh, isn't that a great question?

25:47.757 --> 25:51.291
[JC]: Yeah, so I'll answer what I answered and then we'll expand upon it.

25:52.102 --> 25:59.364
[JC]: So I write, baptism is necessary for salvation, but not absolutely necessary.

25:59.564 --> 26:08.005
[JC]: So we should be baptized, but there's a difference between lacking opportunity to be baptized and rejecting baptism.

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[JC]: In the first instance, a person may confess faith in Jesus and have every intention and hope of being baptized, but die before havving the opportunity.

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[JC]: We believe that person will be saved.

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[JC]: In the second instance, a person who rejects baptism cannot be saved because they've rejected the clear word and command of Jesus.

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[JC]: So we stop there.

26:31.796 --> 26:40.421
[JC]: So I often use the image with kids when they ask this question in class or with anyone really who asks me, I say, okay, because I've had both experiences in ministry.

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[JC]: Many people gett baptized as their infants and that's something truly to celebrate, but I have had many adults that have had the privilege of baptizing.

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[JC]: And we've had multiple meetings in my office, and we've worked toward baptism.

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[JC]: They've confessed faith in Christ.

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[JC]: They're eager to be baptized.

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[JC]: Let's say one of those individuals has been meeting with me in my office.

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[JC]: They have acknowledged that Christ is their Lord.

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[JC]: We're celebrating this.

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[JC]: And on Sunday, we're going to celebrate baptism.

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[JC]: And on their way up the aisle, they have a heart attack and die six feet before they gett to the font.

27:11.633 --> 27:14.637
[JC]: Well, we do not believe that person will not be saved.

27:15.177 --> 27:17.981
[JC]: They lack the opportunity, but not the intent.

27:18.501 --> 27:27.792
[JC]: So I came across this quote by Luther, and he says this, in case of necessity, a man can be saved without the sacrament.

27:27.852 --> 27:31.437
[JC]: But what Luther says here is really insightful, but not without the word.

27:32.779 --> 27:36.520
[JC]: This is true of those who desire baptism but die before they can receive it.

27:37.201 --> 27:41.522
[JC]: So I think that's important because baptism, I often call it the liquid word.

27:42.182 --> 27:46.904
[JC]: It's where God connects his word of forgiveness to this visible element.

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[JC]: And you have so many wonderful descriptions of baptism in our confessions and our catechisms.

27:53.146 --> 27:56.047
[JC]: Those are such rich treasures to bring out and share with people.

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[JC]: And we really want to hold it up and extol it.

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[JC]: But what we're talking about here is the effective agent in baptism is the word that has connected itself to the water.

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[JC]: So if a person has heard that word and has responded in faith, but has lacked the opportunity to have baptism, we would find great confidence and hope that that person would indeed be saved, but simply lack the opportunity.

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[JC]: So I think that's important for people to realize.

28:22.901 --> 28:24.745
[TW]: Pastor Jonathan Conner is our guest.

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[TW]: We're beginning a new series, Kids Have Questions, talking about the afterlife.

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[TW]: Simple question, will people in hell gett another chance?

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[TW]: Welcome back on this Friday, July the 21st.

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[TW]: We are beginning a new series, Kids Have Questions.

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[TW]: Today, questions about the afterlife.

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[TW]: Pastor Jonathan Conrad is our guest.

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[TW]: I'm Todd Wilkin.

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[TW]: This is Issues Etc.

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[TW]: Here's one very simple question.

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[TW]: Will people in hell gett another chance?

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[JC]: Yeah, this is important.

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[JC]: I wanted to say before I read the answer to the child, hell is always a difficult subject to talk about for so many reasons, and I'll expand upon that in a minute.

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[JC]: So I try to be sensitive when I talk about this, but at the same time, we need to be as direct as Jesus is, and he's pretty direct in his teaching and preaching, so we should not shy away from that.

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[JC]: So what I write to the child,

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[JC]: People in hell will not be given another chance.

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[JC]: Remember, hell effectively is their choice.

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[JC]: They had a lifetime of opportunity to repent, but they didn't.

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[JC]: They are in hell because they rejected Jesus.

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[JC]: God doesn't exclude people from heaven against their will.

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[JC]: Further, God is absolutely just and right.

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[JC]: Note, this is important.

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[JC]: No one will accuse God of being unfair.

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[JC]: Hell is justice for sin.

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[JC]: Now, those things are hard to say.

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[JC]: So that's the end of my answer.

31:49.620 --> 31:54.083
[JC]: Those things are hard to say, but sometimes it's just important to be very direct.

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[JC]: But let me expand upon that just a little bit.

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[JC]: Like I mentioned, I can't imagine someone liking the doctrine of hell because it's an uncomfortable thing to talk about.

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[JC]: And it's something that many people struggle with.

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[JC]: And for some, it's a roadblock to Christianity.

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[JC]: But I suspect that one of the reasons why we struggle so much with this is because when you gett right down to it, I'm not sure we do a very good job appreciating the evil of our sin.

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[JC]: I like to describe this as we all have the Mary Poppins syndrome.

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[JC]: We're practically perfect in every way.

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[JC]: So I always find it fascinating.

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[JC]: And I've done this, you know, it's kind of a cultural phrase.

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[JC]: Well, I'm not perfect.

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[JC]: And then we say, but I give it my best, that sort of thing.

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[JC]: It is very revealing that we as a culture start with the assumption that we start with perfection and we're just beneath it.

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[JC]: I think that's revealing for our assumptions about our nature as fallen creatures, and it's probably an overly positive assessment of our natures.

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[JC]: When I look at the Scriptures, they tend to have more of the opinion of, we're closer to the worms than Mary Poppins.

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[JC]: Luther has this great, and I won't read the long quote, but he has this great phrase.

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[JC]: He's talking about what should we do if we don't desire to go to the sacrament.

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[JC]: And he says, well, I'll tell you what you should do.

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[JC]: You should lift up your shirt and look and see if you're still made of skin.

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[JC]: So did you find you've got some skin there?

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[JC]: You still got some flesh.

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[JC]: Well, if you've got some flesh, go and read God's word in Galatians chapter five about the sins of the flesh.

33:33.878 --> 33:36.199
[JC]: And if you go read Ephesians chapter five,

33:36.932 --> 33:41.035
[JC]: That's one of those texts in scripture that can be a little awkward to read out loud.

33:41.375 --> 33:43.977
[JC]: It's just so exposing.

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[JC]: Paul talks about sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, adultery, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousies, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, things like these.

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[JC]: That'll make you blush to talk about.

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[JC]: But that's who we are as sinners, right?

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[JC]: So I think part of our problem with hell is, number one, we just

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[JC]: don't give full weight to how evil sin is.

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[JC]: And I think the other thing that probably we fail at is I'm not sure we've really

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[JC]: understand the holiness of God.

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[JC]: I mean, the burning purity of perfection.

34:28.651 --> 34:29.412
[JC]: Let me give you an image.

34:29.452 --> 34:35.836
[JC]: This is as close as I can gett as an image to conceptualize what we mean by God's burning holiness.

34:36.716 --> 34:40.719
[JC]: I grew up in Southern Indiana, and there's a glassblowing factory down there.

34:41.259 --> 34:45.181
[JC]: We've toured it multiple times, and it's just a fascinating place to visit.

34:45.742 --> 34:47.483
[JC]: And of course, they have the glassblowing ovens.

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[JC]: And if you've ever seen one of these things, when they open that oven,

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[JC]: It's the most beautiful, glowing, red, orange color you've ever seen.

34:57.909 --> 35:00.129
[JC]: You can't help but look at it.

35:00.729 --> 35:03.470
[JC]: And you feel so drawn to it.

35:03.770 --> 35:10.592
[JC]: And I'll tell you, the temptation is you really want to touch it because it's so beautiful.

35:11.452 --> 35:14.293
[JC]: But if you touch it, it will kill you.

35:15.173 --> 35:17.334
[JC]: It's not because the oven is evil.

35:18.530 --> 35:20.350
[JC]: It's just because we're not fitted for it.

35:21.151 --> 35:21.911
[JC]: I think of C.S.

35:21.931 --> 35:30.672
[JC]: Lewis's book, The Great Divorce, where he describes the reality of heaven slash the new earth as more real or more firm.

35:31.012 --> 35:39.354
[JC]: And you have these sort of, well, he says that these people from hell gettting that day trip, the kind of field trip to heaven, again, it's a fictional book, but well worth the read.

35:39.694 --> 35:41.054
[JC]: They're not firmed up yet.

35:41.454 --> 35:44.335
[JC]: So they can't stand the realness of heaven.

35:45.379 --> 35:46.639
[JC]: Well, here we are.

35:47.020 --> 35:52.662
[JC]: We can't be as sinners in the presence of a holy God.

35:53.342 --> 35:59.784
[JC]: Just like you can't stick your arm in a burning oven that's 2000 degrees and expect to have it there when you pull it out.

36:00.424 --> 36:02.585
[JC]: That's the idea of God's burning perfection.

36:02.625 --> 36:04.406
[JC]: He's so perfect.

36:05.202 --> 36:13.388
[JC]: that if we just assume we can just be in His presence, filthy with our sin, that's the most dangerous assumption ever.

36:14.068 --> 36:17.431
[JC]: So as difficult as hell is, just a couple of final reflections on it.

36:19.005 --> 36:35.169
[JC]: I think if we gett a deeper appreciation of our sinfulness, a higher appreciation of God's holiness, and then at the end of the day realize, look, Jesus spoke very frankly about hell.

36:36.029 --> 36:41.311
[JC]: He acknowledged its reality, and he didn't back down from talking about it.

36:42.191 --> 36:46.572
[JC]: It may make us uncomfortable, but if Jesus was comfortable with it,

36:47.327 --> 36:51.692
[JC]: then I think we need to be as comfortable as we can with it because He is.

36:51.792 --> 37:00.641
[JC]: So we have to kind of say, if Jesus says it, then I'm going to side with Jesus and probably figure the problem is somewhere in me and not in Jesus.

37:02.242 --> 37:06.427
[JC]: One more quick question with just a few minutes left.

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[JC]: Will my dead pets be in heaven?

37:09.594 --> 37:10.515
[JC]: Oh, that's a great question.

37:10.615 --> 37:14.499
[JC]: I love when kids ask this question because, I mean, they love their animals.

37:15.040 --> 37:17.022
[JC]: And I think it's so important to talk about it.

37:17.442 --> 37:20.345
[JC]: I'll do my best to be quick, but I could go on for quite a while on this one.

37:20.465 --> 37:22.467
[JC]: But the short answer is this.

37:23.008 --> 37:24.269
[JC]: Let me just read what I said to the child.

37:24.309 --> 37:25.230
[JC]: Maybe that'd be the best.

37:25.410 --> 37:28.894
[JC]: And maybe another time we can expand upon it, but it's well worth talking about.

37:28.934 --> 37:29.835
[JC]: So I say, great question.

37:30.495 --> 37:32.437
[JC]: I'm glad you're thinking about this.

37:33.098 --> 37:40.002
[JC]: So the book of Genesis says that God breathed the same breath of life into animals that he breathed into humans.

37:40.383 --> 37:47.687
[JC]: So we understand that animals, at least in some sense, have a sort of animating essence, which we would call their soul.

37:47.887 --> 37:50.709
[JC]: But they seem to have a lesser soul than humans have.

37:50.829 --> 37:55.172
[JC]: So we are capable of higher reasoning and a higher level of consciousness.

37:55.472 --> 37:58.474
[JC]: But does this mean that their soul survived death?

37:59.074 --> 38:00.876
[JC]: The Bible doesn't say this.

38:01.536 --> 38:06.638
[JC]: Further, we know that Jesus didn't die for animals in the same way that he died for humans.

38:07.178 --> 38:12.040
[JC]: So he didn't die to forgive animal sin, since they're not described as sinful.

38:12.781 --> 38:19.323
[JC]: They, like the rest of creation, have been cursed because of Adam's sin, but they are not called sinful.

38:19.423 --> 38:24.806
[JC]: So we don't know if they will have some sort of continued existence beyond death, but

38:25.626 --> 38:29.351
[JC]: We do know that animals will be on the new earth.

38:29.872 --> 38:31.674
[JC]: They will be part of the renewed creation.

38:32.795 --> 38:35.198
[JC]: Will our specific pets be there?

38:36.474 --> 38:36.914
[JC]: I don't know.

38:37.835 --> 38:38.955
[JC]: The Bible doesn't say.

38:39.235 --> 38:44.337
[JC]: It's at least conceivable, but we can't say for certain because the Bible doesn't say.

38:44.677 --> 38:52.381
[JC]: So we'll have to leave that particular question unanswered for now, but we do know that animals will be there and man and beast will live in peace.

38:53.121 --> 38:57.463
[JC]: And imagine what it will be like when animals aren't afraid of us and they won't harm us.

38:58.263 --> 38:59.584
[JC]: that's pretty exciting to think about.

38:59.764 --> 39:01.684
[JC]: So that's where my answer ends there.

39:02.025 --> 39:12.189
[JC]: Lots more I could say on that, but I love talking about pets because it gives us the opportunity really to expand upon the reality of the renewed creation coming, and I think that getts people excited as well as it should.

39:13.249 --> 39:15.850
[JC]: We can pick up on that question at a later time as well.

39:16.050 --> 39:21.813
[JC]: Real quick with about a minute, what pastoral advice can you give parents when they don't have an answer to their children's questions?

39:22.338 --> 39:23.018
[JC]: Yeah, yeah.

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[JC]: Okay.

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[JC]: First, I might not have time to share all the resources I'd like to share at this time.

39:27.180 --> 39:28.141
[JC]: Maybe we can do that later.

39:28.221 --> 39:32.823
[JC]: But first, don't panic when your kids ask questions and don't blow them off either.

39:33.263 --> 39:35.705
[JC]: That just tells them that they're not going to ask you again.

39:36.045 --> 39:36.985
[JC]: So don't panic.

39:37.045 --> 39:37.645
[JC]: Don't blow it off.

39:38.046 --> 39:39.086
[JC]: Don't make them feel stupid.

39:39.726 --> 39:44.309
[JC]: Celebrate their curiosity and make discovering the answers an adventure.

39:44.929 --> 39:47.990
[JC]: And then I would say, write those questions down because you'll forgett them.

39:48.150 --> 39:49.911
[JC]: If you can't answer them, write them down.

39:50.211 --> 39:51.512
[JC]: Go talk to your pastor.

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[JC]: And if he doesn't know, just pester him until he'll go find it out.

39:55.873 --> 40:02.176
[JC]: Because these questions are so important for children to know that the church is the place to ask these questions.

40:02.836 --> 40:04.917
[JC]: I mean, the church has been around for 2,000 years.

40:05.197 --> 40:08.077
[JC]: We've faced most questions, so we have answers.

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[JC]: We've thought about these things.

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[JC]: And I want to invite children and parents into this conversation and this discovery so there's great joy and confidence that they are welcome to ask their questions in the church.

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[JC]: This is the place to ask your questions.

40:22.001 --> 40:23.601
[JC]: And maybe if we don't know them right away,

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[JC]: to start searching the Scriptures togetther to try to learn the answers.

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[JC]: And there will be a few that will have to gett to the end of the day and say, well, Scripture's silent on that one.

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[JC]: So we can make a reasonable guess, but we can't be definitive on that.

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[JC]: So let's encourage their questions.

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[JC]: Let's build a culture of questions and a culture of discovery togetther.

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[JC]: I think if we do that, that's going to be fantastic.

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[JC]: Pastor Jonathan Conner is pastor of Zion Lutheran Church in Manning, Iowa.

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[JC]: Next time when we talk with him and our series Kids Have Questions, we'll deal with whether or not there'll be sadness in heaven, and will there be complete equality in heaven.

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[JC]: Pastor Conner, thank you very much.

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[JC]: Hey, thanks so much, Todd.